tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post1237671539856112033..comments2024-02-11T19:28:27.997+11:00Comments on Personal Reflections: Winton Bates, kvd & monitory democracyJim Belshawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-57558421214671115642012-07-10T20:34:44.895+10:002012-07-10T20:34:44.895+10:00Hi Jim, I do think the state is increasingly monit...Hi Jim, I do think the state is increasingly monitoring us. A related term is 'the security state'.<br /><br />My concern with post-WW2 representative democracy is the declining party membership (ie. the participation in democracy is declining - so a more participatory democracy would be good).<br /><br />Democracy is increasingly becoming a choice of elite clubs. The decline in party membership meaning that people are largely removed from policy making. So I think we need new mechanisms - sometimes called deliberative democracy, citizen juries and such.Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355215688351759230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-45670005769810622192012-07-10T13:56:54.129+10:002012-07-10T13:56:54.129+10:00Actually, a correction. Winton, Winton, not kvd.Actually, a correction. Winton, Winton, not kvd.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-52117570128111738462012-07-10T13:52:52.461+10:002012-07-10T13:52:52.461+10:00Always good to see conversation proceed in my abse...Always good to see conversation proceed in my absence! Seriously, we all seem to be agreement!<br /><br />kvd, I laughed. You have inspired today's post.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-27906869594280804092012-07-10T11:12:35.447+10:002012-07-10T11:12:35.447+10:00Thanks Neil and kvd.
In his NYT article(referred ...Thanks Neil and kvd. <br />In <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/opinion/sunday/friedman-the-rise-of-popularism.html?_r=1" rel="nofollow">his NYT article</a>(referred to by Michael Pascoe) Thomas Friedman uses the word popularism. Please note the spelling!Winton Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-35877887907701760872012-07-10T09:54:13.411+10:002012-07-10T09:54:13.411+10:00Winton - I meant to add thanks for the link to you...Winton - I meant to add thanks for the link to your April 2008 piece. I found that very clear.<br /><br />kvdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-74547761113466591582012-07-10T09:51:10.862+10:002012-07-10T09:51:10.862+10:00Jim perhaps the other thing you might have include...Jim perhaps the other thing you might have included is my later comment to Winton that I disliked the term as being confusingly close to 'monetary'.<br /><br />It seems these days impossible to discuss anything without first assigning a label - but there is a flow on effect in that, having labelled a concept, sometimes the concept then assumes a greater significance than necessarily deserved. (This is a rehash of a comment I made on Winton's piece)<br /><br />So, if I find the term confusing, do I have an alternative? From two different cultures, I'd suggest either 'pinata democracy' or 'aunt sally democracy' as being closest to my thought that we are in danger of electing governments for a term of some years, then subjecting them to continual critique, with the result that the elected basically spend their elected terms responding to minute by minute 'crises' rather than executing their programs.<br /><br />fwiw<br /><br />kvdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-11088063337590857142012-07-10T09:40:01.806+10:002012-07-10T09:40:01.806+10:00I think Winton is right about "populism"...I think Winton is right about "populism" so being subject to pejoration now as perhaps to be beyond rescue. It happens: "The downgrading or depreciation of a word's meaning, as when a word with a positive sense develops a negative one." See also <a href="http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-populism.htm" rel="nofollow">What is Populism?</a> and <a href="http://americanreviewmag.com/stories/Understanding-populism" rel="nofollow">Understanding populism</a>.Neil Wnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-52986025200515981562012-07-10T08:06:31.302+10:002012-07-10T08:06:31.302+10:00Jim
Thanks for posting on this topic. Having asked...Jim<br />Thanks for posting on this topic. Having asked kvd for his view I was wondering how best to give it the attention it deserves. You have made this easy.<br /><br />You have nearly persuaded me that ‘monitory’ might be a good term to use to describe modern democracy, but kvd had almost persuaded me to the opposite viewpoint. I’m not sure that monitory captures the asinine aspect of modern politics – particularly use of focus groups to find meaningless words that have an appealing ring to them and using those words as a substitute for policies. For example: ‘moving forward with plans to build a sustainable Australia’.<br /><br />I liked Michael Pascoe’s piece. If you were upset by Michael’s use of the word populism you would probably be enraged by <a href="http://wintonbates.blogspot.com.au/2008/04/what-is-difference-between-populism-and.html" rel="nofollow">something I wrote</a> on the topic a few years ago. If I had read <a href="http://belshaw.blogspot.com.au/2007/04/on-populism.html" rel="nofollow">a relevant post</a> on your blog, I would probably have taken a different tack.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the dictionary definition of populism as 'seeking to represent all the people' has been lost in common usage. I have been trying to think up a better word to describe politicians who seek popularity by appealing to ignorance, confusion or prejudice. ‘Demagoguery’ is not always the appropriate word. I think ‘dog whistle’ politician comes close, but it doesn’t quite capture the asininity referred to above.Winton Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-14745659164662861232012-07-09T22:35:19.255+10:002012-07-09T22:35:19.255+10:00I thought this post was very enlightening. In part...I thought this post was very enlightening. In particular I note the quote: ‘the rapid growth of many different kinds of extra-parliamentary, power-scrutinising mechanisms’. I feel here is the heart of the 'problem'. Governments, Local, State and Federal have created or forced unpopular decision making away from themselves so that they can focus on what is more important (their own desire to be seen as important and popular in their own crowd). <br /><br />I've course I do generalize (though local government is close to being exactly as above). There are many politicians who do actually want to make a positive and definite change but the now built-in populist mechanism has made that hard. It seems only an emergency will create lasting action these days.Rodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10962789743908134314noreply@blogger.com