tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post8481418362537287344..comments2024-02-11T19:28:27.997+11:00Comments on Personal Reflections: Lorenzo and the economic complexity of traditional Aboriginal lifeJim Belshawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-86369771834381974152013-01-31T08:43:40.697+11:002013-01-31T08:43:40.697+11:00I knew where you were coming from, kvd. But a few ...I knew where you were coming from, kvd. But a few follow up comments before I submerge for the day.<br /><br />Lorenzo has a hunter gatherer vs farmer model that he has used before. While it provides a useful starting point for discussion, it is dangerous when applied to specific cases. <br /><br />I agree with your point re the general (Lorenzo's piece) and some of the specific responses. At the same time, L's argument here does not compare like with like and mixes various things together.<br /><br />The drift in comments into specific discussion of policies towards Australia's Aboriginal peoples raised my ire. I have written so much on this trying to disentangle the issues and, in particular, the need to challenge universal statements and national generalisations based upon particular examples. The often implicit mental frames used in policy analysis and commentary are just so hard to break! <br /><br /> Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-64547902071144095022013-01-31T07:35:33.933+11:002013-01-31T07:35:33.933+11:00Jim, the above comments (regarding lack of referen...Jim, the above comments (regarding lack of references) were not directed to your post in particular, I do assure you. Years of reading your thoughts makes me comfortable with the fact that you know exactly what you are talking about in this area and - yes - I do remember earlier posts of yours which reference studies of the things you are summarising here, so please don't waste time locating your references on my account.<br /><br />And for what it's worth, you seem to be almost alone in being willing to acknowledge your sometimes lack of indepth understanding of some issues; most seem more than comfortable in claiming to be expert in all things, it seems to me.<br /><br />This I actually regard as a huge plus in your favour - and also Winston's fwiw.<br /><br />kvdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-21451283157220692582013-01-31T06:48:50.537+11:002013-01-31T06:48:50.537+11:00Hi kvd and thanks. I will come back with more deta...Hi kvd and thanks. I will come back with more detailed comments tonight. I deliberately didn't provide evidence in this post. Do I have the evidence? Yes; some you have already seen. Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-11329337020558679432013-01-31T06:03:57.279+11:002013-01-31T06:03:57.279+11:00Very interesting comments Jim, but if I may be all...Very interesting comments Jim, but if I may be allowed to express some points of 'intellectual annoyance' with both this post and the comments attached to Lorenzo's post:<br /><br />1. The lack of references to studies which support assersions being made. (Makes it impossible to do anything other than accept what is stated at face value, only to have to backtrack and reconsider when another poster's refutation provides actual support via reference)<br /><br />2. The use of different 'markers' to refute or dispute opinions. (e.g. writer #1 uses life expectancy; writer #2 uses infant mortality; #3 spouts about diabetes. All again usually without references being given.)<br /><br />3. The use of anecdote to 'prove' or dispute a particular point. (As opposed to anecdote as illustration of wider issue, it is used as a sort of 'case solved' technique. Worse still IRL it is sometimes used as the primary reason for legislation.)<br /><br />4. The concentration upon a particular issue when a post is far wider in its framing. (I spent a lot of time reading Lorenzo's post, and my takeaway was that he was addressing worldwide indigenous outcome failures, not simply Australia's particular experience.)<br /><br />5. The lack of concrete follow through to suggested solution, or at the very least, improvement in the highlighted problems. (Still waiting for anyone to provide alternative strategies, here or elsewhere, to those which seem endlessly demonstrated to be not working. The discussion always seems to stop short of what I would have thought to be the primary purpose of raising the problem in the first place.)<br /><br />6. Very few posters seem able to easily acknowledge the limits of their own expertise; what is so hard about saying "I don't know" instead of obfuscating, or talking past another poster's point?<br /><br />General comment:<br /><br />The above is not particularly aimed at either yourself or Lorenzo or indeed any particular contributor on this or Lorenzo's post. More simply a cry in the wilderness, if you will, for some sort of consistent framework, some order of proceedings, in considering any problem. Over at Catallaxy there was a similar post which demonstrates similar issues, similar misdirections, similar derailments.<br /><br />It just makes it very hard sometimes, and can be quite frustrating.<br /><br />kvd<br />ps have a nice day!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-10198233393696428192013-01-31T04:22:41.609+11:002013-01-31T04:22:41.609+11:00Thanks, Noric, and thanks for the retweet too! I s...Thanks, Noric, and thanks for the retweet too! I should note, by the way, that I have a very high opinion of Lorenzo's writing and also of his general historical knowledge. Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-38545484181450072722013-01-30T23:16:29.162+11:002013-01-30T23:16:29.162+11:00Sic 'em Jim!Sic 'em Jim!Noric Dilanchianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07971423154965231907noreply@blogger.com