tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post166067512687828983..comments2024-02-11T19:28:27.997+11:00Comments on Personal Reflections: Sunday Essay – slogans, politics and the misuse of languageJim Belshawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-24096434994683663392014-08-30T10:15:28.074+10:002014-08-30T10:15:28.074+10:00Hi kvd and another apology for slow response. In ...Hi kvd and another apology for slow response. In broad terms I take the force of your comment. Of course I can convert the slogan back, but my interpretation is not necessarily the same as those promoting the slogan. <br /><br />Stop the boats is a case in point. Very early I expressed concern about what I saw as lack of balance and subtlety in the Government's response here. If you like, a slogan provides an objective but says nothing about the path. Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-27159387920935323912014-08-28T17:46:06.551+10:002014-08-28T17:46:06.551+10:00Accept what you say Jim, but I still believe there...Accept what you say Jim, but I still believe there is some merit in Winton's earlier comment that we, the voters, should be (are) able to convert the 'slogan' or 'one-liner' backwards into the detailed policy argument.<br /><br />Obviously not all will, but I think most aware citizens can make that jump reasonably well. If you believe otherwise then that implies some sort of elitism - which I absolutely know is not your view of your fellow citizens.<br /><br />And just on 'stop the boats' I'm not sure how you can divorce the physical act of stopping the boats from the expressed policy decision to prohibit that means of entry to Australia? I'm not sure what you're saying there - and please understand that I believe our own personal stances on this are very similar.<br /><br />kvdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-72456605223834772842014-08-28T11:02:54.547+10:002014-08-28T11:02:54.547+10:00Ramana - and the rest of the world doesn't rea...Ramana - and the rest of the world doesn't read twitter? Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-3417056664503311442014-08-28T10:59:56.642+10:002014-08-28T10:59:56.642+10:00Stop the boats, kvd, has the advantage of simplici...Stop the boats, kvd, has the advantage of simplicity. The government can also argue that it has done just that.<br /><br />My comment about spoon feeding was a general one. Still, and specifically on stop the boats, I wasn't expecting what came, that the slogan was an absolute objective that must be delivered regardless of cost and damage to other objectives. There is a lesson there. <br /><br />Agree on JFK. <br />Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-88708532033270054772014-08-27T22:27:53.515+10:002014-08-27T22:27:53.515+10:00It is. He maintains that he was advising one indi...It is. He maintains that he was advising one individual who asked him for his opinion on the morality of aborting the foetus if it was to be born with Downs Syndrome.Rummuserhttp://www.rummuser.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-56039557284486780992014-08-27T06:28:57.717+10:002014-08-27T06:28:57.717+10:00kvd, response tonight. kvd, response tonight. Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-69660215387969278292014-08-27T06:28:44.042+10:002014-08-27T06:28:44.042+10:00I noted the Dawkins controversy, Ramana, but had n...I noted the Dawkins controversy, Ramana, but had not followed up on the details. I do wonder in this case if twitter is to blame; the longer explanation is consistent with the tweet?Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-7272684743394715692014-08-26T17:15:54.733+10:002014-08-26T17:15:54.733+10:00Jim, there is an alternate view to your distaste o...Jim, there is an alternate view to your distaste of the soundbite political discourse. Maybe the pollies and their advisors are crediting you with enough common sense to recognise the import/context of their short-form statements?<br /><br />Take for instance - "stop the boats" - would you really prefer a(nother) full exposition of the whys, hows, implications - or are you enough up with the background to the ongoing debate to simply make your own mind up about all that, and weigh it against other priorities? I think you are; and I think you would be insulted - or simply switch off - if yet another talking head provided you with yet more backgroud, on an issue which has been by now endlessly debated by representatives of all sides of the debate.<br /><br />So, "stop the boats". Condense, commit. Don't complain.<br /><br />But if you don't like being spoon fed, as you put it, here's one of the best bits of political oratory I've read. And I've read it many times now. Beware, it is long, but I think you can handle it :)<br /><br /><i>Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product - if we judge the United States of America by that - that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for the people who break them. It counts the destruction of the redwood and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and counts nuclear warheads and armored cars for the police to fight the riots in our cities. It counts Whitman's rifle and Speck's knife, and the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children. Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile.</i><br /><br />We have talked about the Gettysburg Address. I think RFK's words are equally laudable.<br /><br />kvdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-14807721300839437042014-08-25T23:55:21.585+10:002014-08-25T23:55:21.585+10:00Twitter is the guilty party here and I think that ...Twitter is the guilty party here and I think that TB is addressing the problems using that as a medium. I am in the midst of a long drawn pro and anti debate on Richard Dawkins who called giving birth to a child with Down Syndrome as immoral. This happened because he used twitter and he could not elaborate what he meant or at least that is what he has been saying post event. I am against his stance but there are surprisingly enough very erudite persons defending him. Had the whole issue been conveyed in a longish communication, the issue may not have blown up to what it has. http://www.christianpost.com/news/richard-dawkins-apologizes-for-saying-couples-should-abort-down-syndrome-babies-try-again-125226/Rummuserhttp://www.rummuser.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-7194970643810365402014-08-25T18:27:19.968+10:002014-08-25T18:27:19.968+10:00I agree Jim.
Once values are clear it is quite ea...I agree Jim.<br /><br />Once values are clear it is quite easy to determine efficiency and preferred options.Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355215688351759230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-7308982084899167482014-08-25T18:22:53.756+10:002014-08-25T18:22:53.756+10:00You made me smile, Rod. I have never been opposed ...You made me smile, Rod. I have never been opposed to trying to capture things simply!<br /><br />Evan, although I agree with your general point, in a lot of cases it's not actually about values. Rather more, will it work, what are the costs. Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-9928645165932721572014-08-25T16:29:29.873+10:002014-08-25T16:29:29.873+10:00Jim you said: "I, for one, would like to have...Jim you said: "I, for one, would like to have less communications and more information, less communications and more analysis. I want to be given time to think about things, to understand." <br /><br />Ironically your 20 second sound bite seems to sum it very well.Rodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10962789743908134314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-4252056184786663682014-08-25T11:48:33.509+10:002014-08-25T11:48:33.509+10:00I agree with the thrust of your argument Jim.
I t...I agree with the thrust of your argument Jim.<br /><br />I think Adolf and Tony and many an ad agency person just understand PR and advertising.<br /><br />In one sense it is a sophisticated form of rhetoric - the goal being persuasion. This has a tradition of 2000 years.<br /><br />I think one think that would help is to be clear about the values being argued for.Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355215688351759230noreply@blogger.com