tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post5130640735047388895..comments2024-02-11T19:28:27.997+11:00Comments on Personal Reflections: Gaza, democracy and the question of world governmentJim Belshawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-82003491817306408212009-01-11T09:56:00.000+11:002009-01-11T09:56:00.000+11:00Thank you Tikno. I have read the post and will lea...Thank you Tikno. I have read the post and will leave a comment. You raise an interesting question. Put this another way. The veto right is a vestige of the past and is undemocratic. But is the world yet ready for a broader version of democracy. My feeling is no; that is one of the issues we need to discuss when thinking about nrw forms of global government.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-75501965435165809202009-01-11T09:18:00.000+11:002009-01-11T09:18:00.000+11:00Sometimes, I agree of what you had said above "som...Sometimes, I agree of what you had said above "some of our current thinking about democracy is deeply inconsistent, even deeply flawed."<BR/><BR/>Btw, I really like to know your opinion towards the existence of veto right. Please visit my latest post "Veto VS Democracy"Tiknohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05733973438543735098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-34587974567399315942009-01-09T05:45:00.000+11:002009-01-09T05:45:00.000+11:00What a compliment, Ramana. I thank you. I would lo...What a compliment, Ramana. I thank you. I would love to visit Pune, but it is a bit out of my reach just at present!<BR/><BR/>On India and Pakistan, one of the reasons that I put so much emphasis from time to time on due process, is that it provides a way to manage the heat to be found in situations such as this one. <BR/><BR/>If the outcome were, as an example, to be war between India and Pakistan, then was what was a tactical victory for those involved in the Mumbai attack would become a major strategic success.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-33539880152838921282009-01-09T03:22:00.000+11:002009-01-09T03:22:00.000+11:00Jim, I invite you to http://rummuser.com/?p=746Jim, I invite you to http://rummuser.com/?p=746Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-54141161947760881682009-01-09T03:03:00.000+11:002009-01-09T03:03:00.000+11:00Jim, we can use someone like you here just now. W...Jim, we can use someone like you here just now. Why don't you consider a trip? I shall be happy to host you in Pune.<BR/><BR/>We have all become hot heads the last few weeks. On both sides of the border!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-20857810869858462042009-01-08T20:03:00.000+11:002009-01-08T20:03:00.000+11:00I tried to be careful, Tikno.Growing up, I was tau...I tried to be careful, Tikno.<BR/><BR/>Growing up, I was taught to respect other people's beliefs. This did not mean agreeing, nor not fighting for what one believed. But if you do not respect and listen, how then can you understand?<BR/><BR/>I hate simplistic solutions. I think that you have to understand the elements in arguments if you are to engage in any way.<BR/><BR/>At university and even now I am as prone as anyone else to engage in arguments for the sake of debate to try to win the intellectual argument. This does not help in thinking about some of the issues we face.<BR/><BR/>Because of my past, i think that I am also a little outside some of the current certainties!Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-25661067053235108342009-01-08T10:05:00.000+11:002009-01-08T10:05:00.000+11:00Thank you for giving an interesting answer. I know...Thank you for giving an interesting answer. I know that the "invisible" is very sensitive and I feels you write it with carefully.Tiknohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05733973438543735098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-41694767669853122002009-01-08T05:54:00.000+11:002009-01-08T05:54:00.000+11:00Interesting point, Tikno. I can see why Ramana wou...Interesting point, Tikno. I can see why Ramana would not want to buy in just at present.<BR/><BR/>I think that the answer is yes, but I also think that it's more complicated than usually allowed.<BR/><BR/>One obvious conflict is between those who support the concept of a modern pluralist secular democracy and those who do not. However, these broad camps have multiple streams of thought.<BR/><BR/>A second conflict lies in the disputes between those who have faith and those who do not. I am using the word faith here in its broadest sense. Part of the argument here drives to the role that faith plays or should play in society.<BR/><BR/>Here we have a continuum from those who argue that faith is a meaningless superstition that must be limited to the private sphere all the way to those who want to establish faith based theist states.<BR/><BR/>There is conflict within and between individual faiths that is driven in part by people's varying perceptions of and responses to the nature of social change. The Anglican communion, for example, is badly split over the two issues of the ordination of women and homosexuality. <BR/><BR/>There are many other examples of conflict of ideas. A key problem to my mind lies in the way that globalisation, social change and modern communication has forced together people of very different histories and ideas.<BR/><BR/>We know from European history that it takes time for institutions and ideas to evolve that will accommodate difference. The concept of a civil society is quite recent. The process of evolution in Europe was at times quite bloody. That history still affects the present - the break up of Yugoslavia is an example. <BR/><BR/>A key problem today is that the social forcing process has out-run our institutional capacities to respond. Time is required, and we don't have it. <BR/><BR/>I have deliberately used non-Muslim examples because, to my mind, the rise of Muslim fundamentalism is simply an example of, an outcome from, broader processes. The harking back to a golden past, the desire to re-establish the caliphate, the search for moral certainty, the willingness to impose views on others, can all be found in some form in other groups.<BR/><BR/>One of the problems in the conflict of ideas is that, to a degree, supporters of western secular democracy struggle to understand and manage alternative views. However, this is really a matter for another post.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-24697407921227071002009-01-08T04:28:00.000+11:002009-01-08T04:28:00.000+11:00Jim, touche!Tikno, you are opening a can of worms ...Jim, touche!<BR/><BR/>Tikno, you are opening a can of worms with that question. Someone like me will take off into orbit with a rocket propelled by Samuel Huntington's The Clash of Civilizations. Actually, I am tempted to, but the situation in India right now is not quite conducive to such pontification.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-79506052374198803022009-01-08T00:51:00.000+11:002009-01-08T00:51:00.000+11:00Jim, I feel there is an invisible war of ideology ...Jim, I feel there is an invisible war of ideology (or perhaps religion) which has been planted from grass root.<BR/><BR/>What you think ?Tiknohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05733973438543735098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-31619359194091861222009-01-07T18:00:00.000+11:002009-01-07T18:00:00.000+11:00So do I, Neil. Hate typos, that is. I agree with y...So do I, Neil. Hate typos, that is. I agree with you point re timing.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-61446767398804829772009-01-07T13:30:00.000+11:002009-01-07T13:30:00.000+11:00"impeding"? Try "impending"!Hate it when I see a t..."impeding"? Try "impending"!<BR/><BR/>Hate it when I see a typo <I>after</I> sending!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-55153600815359941852009-01-07T13:29:00.000+11:002009-01-07T13:29:00.000+11:00There's much in what you say, Jim, with the obviou...There's much in what you say, Jim, with the obvious fact -- and I think it is a fact -- that it has been timed to precede a new US administration, not to mention impeding elections in Israel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-14146697597007726262009-01-07T06:24:00.000+11:002009-01-07T06:24:00.000+11:00Ramana,focusing on the election question.I think w...Ramana,focusing on the election question.<BR/><BR/>I think we need to distinguish between the process of forming a government and subsequent relations with that Government. In advocating democracy on one side but then refusing to accept the result in this case, the West created a disconnect in its own position.<BR/><BR/>Israel is entitled to defend itself.It had reason to doubt Hamas. <BR/><BR/>While expressing your resrevations, you recognise the election and maintain existing relations including payment of customs duties. If rockets are fired, you lodge a protest, telling the Govenment to fix things. If they cannot, you lodge a protest with the UN. <BR/><BR/>If trouble then continues,you have a rock solid and defensible case for taking staged action against the Government in question.<BR/><BR/>Israel's case has been made especially difficult by the recurring cycles of violence. Israel's core strategic problem is that its relative capacity to punish violence with violence seems to be diminishing. More precisely, the other side's capacity to respond with further violence appears to be increasing.<BR/><BR/>Israel did not lose in Southern Lebanon despite the propaganda claims made by Hezbollah. However, it took far more punishment than expected.<BR/><BR/>The difficulty with the situation that has been created in Gaza by the various steps since the election lies in the probability that Israel can only win this latest round by destroying Hamas, replacing it with some other form of administration. <BR/><BR/>The worst outcome for Israel in some ways might be a cease-fire forced under international pressure leaving a Hamas structure still capable of responding with further violence. I suspect that the timing of the attack was carefully chosen to give Israel the maximum possible window.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes when you get cycles of violence like this both sides have to bleed themselves out before solutions are possible.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-83673861875412596722009-01-07T05:01:00.000+11:002009-01-07T05:01:00.000+11:00Yes, Hamas won the election fair and square and th...Yes, Hamas won the election fair and square and the West has not accepted the fact. <BR/><BR/>What would Australia do if say from Indonesia or New Zealand there was a daily barrage of low intensity but damaging nevertheless rocket fire aimed at places with people?<BR/><BR/>As an Indian facing more or less similar problems from across our borders, and not separated by high seas, I can sympathize with Israel. <BR/><BR/>Hamas has stated that its sole reason for existence is the destruction of Israel. What has democracy got to with it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com