tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post8315732380192755051..comments2024-02-11T19:28:27.997+11:00Comments on Personal Reflections: Left vs rightJim Belshawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-59841257704461802192010-10-03T17:04:03.253+11:002010-10-03T17:04:03.253+11:00Hi Winton from Rhodes
Certainly Dad knew Hayek, b...Hi Winton from Rhodes<br /><br />Certainly Dad knew Hayek, but he was not a supporter of any school. His two core specialities were the history of economic thought plus development economics. I think that it is hard to be a specific school supporter when you spend your time analysing changes in the way people have thought. He was a Keynesian in macro terms, he did his original PhD on depression economic policy in NZ; he supported Government intervention in specific cases; he also made a distinction between economics as a tool kit and the values that informed the questions asked; in this sense, he saw economics as a profession.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-14878588844297005502010-10-02T10:27:47.258+10:002010-10-02T10:27:47.258+10:00Jim
I was interested in your account of your fath...Jim <br />I was interested in your account of your father's political views. I had thought him to have been strongly influenced by Austrian economists - based largely on an informal discussion I had with him once about Hayek's capital theory (which he seemed to have been able to comprehend and I still struggle with).<br />Perhaps Prof. Belshaw liked to provoke discussion more than expounding his own views.Winton Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-36221598243760168952010-09-17T20:55:26.913+10:002010-09-17T20:55:26.913+10:00You raise a big topic here, David, one that is dif...You raise a big topic here, David, one that is difficult for me to respond to properly tonight since I fly to Greece at 6am tomorrow.<br /><br />Briefly, I think that we are all tribal to some extent. To my mind, it's a natural part of being human. The problem arises when our tribal loyalties block out consideration of other things. <br /><br />Again, and as so often happens in our conversations, the topic warrants a full post in its own right to extend discussion. I do wonder, however, if I will ever catch up with (complete) the list of topics you have stimulated!Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-38272284834017060822010-09-17T11:06:10.420+10:002010-09-17T11:06:10.420+10:00Jim, I do understand that tribalism exists, and mu...Jim, I do understand that tribalism exists, and must be dealt with. I think I was trying to state that tribalism seems to provide the followers with some sort of sense of their identity, their "place" in the world; and that is what I don't get.<br /><br />It just seems otherwise quite nice and thinking people somehow check their thinking caps at the door, in the need to belong to some perceived greater whole in order to either give greater meaning to, or get greater enjoyment from, that part of their lives.<br /><br />The sight of crying football supporters, or otherwise rational politicians arguing that black is in fact white is quite foreign (and sometimes frightening)to my view of the world.<br /><br />kvdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-63991465385402397372010-09-17T10:04:17.791+10:002010-09-17T10:04:17.791+10:00It depends on what you mean by tribalism, KVD. The...It depends on what you mean by tribalism, KVD. The existence of views/reactions that both LE and I complain about is an objective reality in the sense that it exists and has to be dealt with.<br /><br />Part of the problem with tribalism, and it is a concept that I use myself, is that it has varying meanings. The habit of left-right pidgeon holing is not, of itself, tribalism. The fervour of the party or ideological faithful probably is.<br /><br />Part of my point is that I don't see the world in terms of "both sides". If by both sides you mean that Labor and the Coalition each have good ideas, of course. But I don't see politics just in terms of that tripartite subdivision.<br /><br />I would agree that you get inappropriate application. As you know I try to fight against this.<br /><br />I would argue, I think, that the discussions ftom LE and I, while our focus is different, is part of the process of clarifying the issues involved in our own minds.<br /><br />And, yes, it is a nice day!Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-53885175878201106562010-09-17T08:11:26.901+10:002010-09-17T08:11:26.901+10:00Jim the other thing I don't "get" is...Jim the other thing I don't "get" is the tribalism which both LE and yourself mention and seem to accept. I have never felt myself part of a tribe as it might relate for instance to politics or to sport, and the only area I could apply this term to is my immediate family and their partners and offspring.<br /><br />I enjoy sport of any sort when executed at a high level, but carry no flag for a particular team - and that even applies to cricket. As for politics, it seems to me that both "sides" have good ideas in their place, but the problem seems always to be the hidebound relocation of those preconceptions to inappropriate areas of community and national life.<br /><br />Oh well, but it is going to be a nice day.<br /><br />kvdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-58893040911905629422010-09-17T06:48:29.684+10:002010-09-17T06:48:29.684+10:00Hi LE & KVD. KVD, I agree with your sense of t...Hi LE & KVD. KVD, I agree with your sense of tiredness on this sort of framing, yet and as you note, it is very hard to avoid. <br /><br />A recent example is the way that commentators and others struggled to discuss the hung parliament in a sensible way because those involved and especially the country independents did not quite fit conventional frames.<br /><br />The revival and attachment of the "socialist" label by the Liberal Party was an attempt to attach to and thus discredit the country independents. It had some impact reading the comments on stories in the Northern Daily Leader. <br /><br />LE, I also try to be my "own wing." However, as KVD notes, it is almost impossible to escape.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-64566095829433642312010-09-16T20:25:16.892+10:002010-09-16T20:25:16.892+10:00Jim - sorry - kvd signoff missedJim - sorry - kvd signoff missedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-18176980434142569892010-09-16T20:24:41.396+10:002010-09-16T20:24:41.396+10:00Jim, I confess to complete tiredness of this sort ...Jim, I confess to complete tiredness of this sort of framing. It sometimes seems you can't have any sensible discussion on any topic until the proponents have been classified as either right or left. Only then may the discussion commence, and then most usually with the same old, same old, vitriolic pointless pointscoring.<br /><br />LE is right to try to be her own wing, but I suspect she hasn't got the proverbial prayer which goes with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-72122795987190854652010-09-16T20:10:42.188+10:002010-09-16T20:10:42.188+10:00I don't really like the traditional "left...I don't really like the traditional "left-right" divide (which is why I often say that I'm "my own wing"). It doesn't really cover the complexity of views. I don't like the tribalism of it, either.Legal Eaglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01096038577529334966noreply@blogger.com