tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post9136422393705456125..comments2024-02-11T19:28:27.997+11:00Comments on Personal Reflections: Shared identity, land rights and proposed changes to the Australian constitution to recognise Aboriginal occupation Jim Belshawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-45129789086947237882015-06-27T11:18:39.770+10:002015-06-27T11:18:39.770+10:00Hi 2t and thanks. As I said, the greatest feedback...Hi 2t and thanks. As I said, the greatest feedback I get is on the historical posts. That's actually how I acquired some of my FB friends. I am pretty confident on my general historical and policy analysis, as well as my understanding of the NSW scene because of high exposure. I do not pretend to know the position outside NSW, beyond my general historical and policy knowledge. Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-5574181687893805842015-06-27T10:35:06.757+10:002015-06-27T10:35:06.757+10:00Thank you Jim, for what I can describe without tre...Thank you Jim, for what I can describe without trepidation as a courageous move.<br /><br />Maybe it will stimulate visits to this page and broader discussion with our nations's first inhabitants.2 tannersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-71518705388577482412015-06-26T18:21:03.457+10:002015-06-26T18:21:03.457+10:00To kvd and 2t. With some trepidation, I have put u...To kvd and 2t. With some trepidation, I have put up a request for responses on my personal FB page. I don't know that I will get any, I have never asked for this before, but its the only way that I know to deliver what you have requested. Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-43511656163158481002015-06-26T17:52:27.461+10:002015-06-26T17:52:27.461+10:00That's kind, kvd. You and 2t raise an interest...That's kind, kvd. You and 2t raise an interesting challenge. I may be able to get some specific Aboriginal response via my personal FB page. I generally keep this separate from my other writing, and can't guarantee a response. Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-26258335783042060752015-06-26T17:36:54.854+10:002015-06-26T17:36:54.854+10:00above anon 5.27 p.m. was kvd
kvdabove anon 5.27 p.m. was kvd<br /><br />kvdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-73635585713032595382015-06-26T17:27:12.835+10:002015-06-26T17:27:12.835+10:00Well, I hope you do keep nudging and pushing here,...Well, I hope you do keep nudging and pushing here, Jim. In my limited experience this continues to be one of the most thoughtful and respectful 'places' on the internet for open discussion. And I second tanners' wish to hear from some of your Aboriginal readers; without which we are probably talking into blank air - and I very much hope that is not so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-24554811040760398692015-06-26T11:11:57.874+10:002015-06-26T11:11:57.874+10:00That's a start, kvd, although I may want to go...That's a start, kvd, although I may want to go a little further.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-72322373705898961692015-06-26T11:10:04.958+10:002015-06-26T11:10:04.958+10:00Thoughtful comments, Bob. I have had greater expos...Thoughtful comments, Bob. I have had greater exposure than you in part because of my interests, more because I have been working with Aboriginal people on and off for a lot of the last seven years. I also have Aboriginal friends on Facebook. I know that some Aboriginal people do read my blogs from time to time or my FB posts or the Express column, but I rarely get direct comments. The only exception is some of my historical posts.<br /><br />Your second and third paras sadly capture the problem. You can access aspects of Aboriginal thinking from where you are through the National Indigenous Times (http://www.nit.com.au/), the Koori Mail (http://www.koorimail.com/) or the First Nations Telegraph (https://www.facebook.com/FirstNationsTelegraph). The difficulty is that so much comment on both sides is dominated by difficulties, divisions and the heavy hand of the past. <br /><br />You don't get identification and joining through guilt and anger, but through the creation of shared views and common experiences. kvd actually referred to some of those.<br /><br />Despite my own sometimes pessimism, the process we are going through now is a change process. This is something I wrote on my personal Facebook earlier in June:<br /><br />"Minimbah, a primarily Aboriginal primary school, is TAS's friendship school in Armidale. I was going to say sister school, but that's not quite right.The links go back a long way. I take great pride in the work TAS has done. As the number of Aboriginal old boys (and later girls) grow, so will the links between TAS and the Aboriginal community. By its nature, this is a slow process. You don't turn entrenched disadvantageous around easily, I know that You have to work step by step, accepting failures without losing sight of the vision. We will get there."<br /><br />TAS is my old school. Just at the moment I am feeling a little burn't out because of recent events that I won't bore you with. After this post, I had decided not to write anything more on Aboriginal issues for a while. It had become too difficult. But perhaps I could write a useful post looking at some of the cultural and historical issues, not arguing, just informing. Where did the Aboriginal flag come from? What is the significance of welcome to country or smoking ceremonies? Why attachment to country is important to all Australians? What is an elder? Just plain factual stuff. <br /><br /> Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-71907561800967467472015-06-26T06:48:48.089+10:002015-06-26T06:48:48.089+10:00Jim, just to clarify/modify my earlier comment - i...Jim, just to clarify/modify my earlier comment - if, by a 'minimalist approach', you mean something along the lines of the NSW Constitution:<br /><br />http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca1902188/s2.html<br /><br />- <i>and nothing further</i>, then I will happily sign on.<br /><br />kvdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-15420391759188595022015-06-25T22:22:45.223+10:002015-06-25T22:22:45.223+10:00Jim, I was never suggesting that white people shou...Jim, I was never suggesting that white people should or cannot comment. My point is that living where I do, I am welcomed in and told about cultural practices, some of which if simply read about could appear objectionable or offensive. <br /><br />In the case of Australia's indigenes, I feel literally pushed away - I am ONLY getting the white interpretation which I have to feel loses something in translation.<br /><br />It's hard - I don't speak any of their languages, I've not been inducted into any rites. I'm not emotionally invested in their success, which seems a horrible thing to say but I feel really alienated. I'll never stop feeling that the inequality is ghastly, but I will be working on other, similar, worse things despite the fact that these are Australians.<br /><br />Yes, it is an illustration of the problem. I'm not sugar coating this. But I would LOVE to hear an indigenous comment on this thread.2 tannersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-56985411513033511532015-06-25T19:40:25.116+10:002015-06-25T19:40:25.116+10:002t, very gently, haven't you just demonstrated...2t, very gently, haven't you just demonstrated the problem with your words "interpreted through white eyes, however well meaning"? What's wrong with white or other non-indigenous eyes? Isn't that bifurcation? It's how the interpretation is done and for what purpose.<br /><br />I was delivering a paper to the Armidale & District Historical Society on New England's Aboriginal languages. I was as nervous as a kitten. Language is a sensitive issue, especially in Armidale with conflicting claims, and I had the various groups present even with conflict over who should give me the welcome to country. It was quite a big show. By accident, my Aboriginal mentee was in town and came. "Don't worry", she said. "You know more that they do.". She was right: people were polite and interested. <br /><br />My point is, I guess, that if I accept that I cannot research, write and interpret on Aboriginal matters then the bifurcated ghetto becomes absolute. <br /><br />kvd, will come back to you on your comment. Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-74713226424881074872015-06-25T18:04:50.994+10:002015-06-25T18:04:50.994+10:00This is a difficult thing to convey with appropria...This is a difficult thing to convey with appropriate respect, but I am not in favour of any change which seeks to identify or recognise any one specific group of Australians within our Constitution. I think the main reason for those opposed to any such recognition is actually summarised in Jim's own words:<br /><br /><i>Use the constitution as a minimum base, then get further changes through in declarations and legislation based on that base.</i><br /><br />In all these things, it is not the original intent (well meant, gladly extended) which is the end; words given in goodwill can/will be bent to mean whatever they are needed to mean in other, later discussions - and I'm wondering if we really need that?<br /><br /><i>[US Supreme Court Justice] Douglas stated that the specific guarantees of the Bill of Rights have penumbras "formed by emanations from those guarantees that help give them life and substance,"</i><br /><br />From another time, and another circumstance - but those words are worth contemplating, I think.<br /><br />kvd<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24338064.post-36281100617353099272015-06-25T15:28:47.163+10:002015-06-25T15:28:47.163+10:00My earlier comment about the lack of a Waitangi an...My earlier comment about the lack of a Waitangi and your repeated comments about the bifurcation driven by both sides drive home the problem. I feel both ignorant of, and excluded by, any indigenous culture. The only bits I know about have already been interpreted through white eyes, however well-meaning. I see no signs of change.<br /><br />And that, for me, is a tragedy.2 tannersnoreply@blogger.com